In
the light of sheer intransigence by Lord Hunt on the part of the
Government being totally unwilling to even consider the first set of
amendments (ie incorporating the Sexual Offences Act, the Obscene
Publications Act and the "consent" defence), Baroness Miller has
withdrawn those and, instead, they are now voting on the Amendments to
remove the Extreme Porn clauses entirely.
Unfortunately this amendment was defeated by 66 votes to 30.
There are further opportunities to vote eg at the 3rd reading but the
feeling is that wider groups of Lords are even more likely to support
the Dangerous Pictures clauses.
It looks like Britain will soon become an even more unpleasant land.
Update:
A New Defence
Lord Hunt conceded there should be a new defence, which he will lay
before the Third Reading: I am aware that the noble Lord has concerns
about individuals who keep a record of themselves freely and willingly
participating in bondage, domination, submission and sado-masochistic
practices in which no unlawful harm occurs. I recognise that it would be
anomalous for a person to be committing an offence by possessing an
image of an act which he undertook perfectly lawfully. We intend to
introduce at Third Reading a defence which addresses precisely that
situation.
Comment:
Says it All
From IanG on the Melon Farmers Forum
See
also
parliamentary transcript
from
TheyWorkForYou
Doesn't this say it all?
Lord Faulkner of Worcester (Labour):
My Lords, I, too, expressed reservations about
these clauses in Committee and took very much the same line as the noble
Baroness, Lady Miller, did on that occasion. I looked carefully at the
amendments that my noble friend brought forward and I said in Committee
that I thought that they represented an improvement on what was there
before.
I think that I am the only Member of your Lordships` House who took up
the invitation of my noble friend to visit Charing Cross police station
to view some of what one might call the exhibits that underlie the
Government`s thinking on this matter. A variety of adjectives comes to
mind, such as "bizarre", "unpleasant", "distasteful", even "repulsive",
but the images were not in any sense sexually arousing. At the end of
the visit, I was left with the question whether their possession is so
threatening to society that it is worth turning people into criminals
and sending them to jail if they happen to have them on a computer
screen at home or have obtained them some other way.
I suspect that, like me, many noble Lords have had a fair number of
submissions on this subject from a variety of organisations. Some of
them are very articulate and well argued. The main point that comes
through was expressed by an organisation called backlash, which said:
The proposals are still, despite the recent amendments, worded in such a
way as to risk inadvertently criminalising hundreds of thousands of
British citizens.
He went on to say:
Equally importantly, people will be deterred from
exploring their sexual preferences for fear that their research may lead
them into illegal territory which in turn can cause both distress and
mental health issues as well as being a fundamental breach of their
human rights".
The point is also made by a number of these organisations that most of
the scenes to which my noble friend introduced me at Charing Cross are
not real scenes but are faked for the benefit of their creation or are
the product of an entirely consensual activity, as the noble Lord, Lord
Wallace, pointed out. I am at one with my noble friend Lord McIntosh
and, I suspect, with the Minister in wanting to prosecute illegal
activity that has taken place in order to create these images. However,
if no illegal activity has taken place and we are concerned about merely
the possession of the images, I really cannot imagine that any useful
purpose is served by creating criminals out of the people who possess
them.
My worry is that the wording of the Bill is still much too vague and
could cover all sorts of light, consensual and safe imagery which many
people enjoy and practise and which at present is perfectly legal but
which as a consequence of these clauses will certainly become illegal.
In Committee, I finished by asking my noble friend a question. I did not
get an answer on that occasion and I therefore put the same question to
him now. As a new offence is being created by these clauses, what will
be the position of people who have already downloaded material on to
their computers that until now has not been illegal but henceforth will
be? Will the possession of that be regarded as a criminal offence and,
if it is, what advice are the Government offering to help people to get
rid of it? This is an important issue. This House cannot pass
legislation that inadvertently turns people into criminals, particularly
when the activity in which they are engaging is not doing anybody
outside their own homes any harm.